So, rather then commenting there, I am pointing this comment as my answer.
He said...snip...On a positive personal note, some short bloody conflict between some cousins have ended after few months of bitter dispute over silly matters. It was hell just a month ago, on a visit to NJ, I could not see them all at the same time, It was one family or the other and that complicated everything from logistic to planning, to everyone being frustrated and angry arguments were flying left and right. I just received some pictures of the 1st Birthday of their common nephew and everyone seemed so happy to be together, peace was finally madeHey . Congrats on the family burying the hatchet.
I wish it were that easy for all of US to do this.
Think back to the story of when Jacob and Esau meet after Jacob has been gone (21 years?)
First Jacob sends 7-10 different servants ahead of him with gifts.
If it were only so easy with us. (life would then be a breeze)
In case Israel opts for real peace, Syria (and Lebanon) has some beauty to offer, as expressed in some recent pictures posted by a fellow Syrian blogger. It is of Kassab in the northen cost of Syria (they have gorgeous sunsets) where mountains and nature meet the sea. They have also the best flavored apples you can imagine, my uncle used to bring up some apples from Kassab when we were kids.mark sez: Hey, at the risk of provoking you (disputed territory), Banyes, as well as the mountain in the golan heights is Totally beautiful
but, if we can do peace, and be safe, take it back....And enjoy...
Apparently Hizbolla hides smart missiles in ordinary cars, they could not bomb that bridge at night. So goes the theory of avoiding civilian casualties.--------->Mark Sez:
But the point is that Hizbolla is NOT going out of their way to
make sure the population of Lebanon is safe.
So, how would YOU respond?
Think of it this way...
Imagine we're in IRAQ.
Sunni vs Shite
(see href="http://http://markbnj.blogspot.com/2006/07/mideast-becoming-hawk-too-few-troops.html">My Iraq predictions here
I say we need to figure out how we can SAVE both sides from themselves!!!!
Now. Does it apply to Israel/Lebanon?? Perhaps. Perhaps Not.
Now to Hashem's comments...
Viewing the conflict from the Palestinian and now Lebanese point of view things are not as clear cut as you put them. ...snip...There are people who always believed and still do that Israel is out there to destroy them and take their land. ...snip.
Mark sez---> Yes, and we're now 58 years AFTER the CREATION of the STATE of ISRAEL, and they're dealing with HISTORY from 60 years ago.
TRUE. 60 Years ago, the UN declared a two state solution, and YOU (forgive the finger pointing here) the ARAB countries ABSOLUTELY and irrevocably FORBID this from taking place, THUS declaring Perpetual war against us(Jews/Israel) as well as creating three generations of REFUGEES.
LETS go back. Let's go back to 1914, and World War I.
Lets go back slightly FURTHER.
The Jewish Agency... Started to DISLOCATE the SQUATTERS who were living on land in PALESTINE, that was OWNED by people in SYRIA, LEBANON, and all other points NO WHERE in the Holy LAND.
These people may have lived on these lands for 50 or even 200 years.
It was NOT until a CONCERTED effort was made to LEGALLY purchase the land, from the LEGAL LANDOWNERS, that these people did not realize that they were "squatters" and that big-wigs in Damascus, Tyre, and all those other ARAB cities owned Thousands and thousands of acres in Palestine.
This is the GRAND FRAUD that lies behind the misnomer that ISRAEL "STOLE" Arab lands.
The land wasn't THEIRS.
Oh, you say you lived there for 50 years, and no one ever paid rent or asked you for rent, so it's your land? No Problem... You DO have a claim on the LAND then. And no one could dispute the fact that it's YOUR land. Right?
Oh, You say you lived there for 100 years, and no one ever paid rent or asked you for rent, so it's your land? No Problem... You DO have a claim on the LAND then. And no one could dispute the fact that it's YOUR land. Right?
Oh, You say you lived there for 500 years, and no one ever paid rent or asked you for rent, so it's your land? No Problem... You DO have a claim on the LAND then. And no one could dispute the fact that it's YOUR land. Right?
Oh, You say you lived there for 1,000 years, and no one ever paid rent or asked you for rent, so it's your land? No Problem... You DO have a claim on the LAND then. And no one could dispute the fact that it's YOUR land. Right? No problem.
Well. Here's the rub. OUR civilization (Judaism) beats yours by 2,000 years.
We start at about 3,000 BCE(before Christian Era), and HAD proof that we WERE in the land about 2500 BCE. AND you (since you agree that you come from the SAME father)
agree we OWNED (and were GIVEN the LAND) 2,000 years ago.
OK. We owned the land in 69CE. We were forcibly evicted. We STILL own the darned land, and we have FIRST DIBS on it. SO OUR claims of it being OUR LAND 1,900 years ago comes BEFORE your claims that it was YOUR land 1,000 years ago!
So. We've just reduced the ENTIRE MID-East conflict to a "HE-Said/SHE said fight"
So, Sticks and stones (and Katusha's) can break my bones, but it's STILL our land.
BUT. Because we REALLY REALLY REALLY want peace after 60 years of having a country without peace, (and about 160 years of working towards it), WE want YOU TOO to be happy.
Therefore, our REAL claims of Biblical Israel (look in the book of Numbers for some references)
that Goes WAY beyond the Jordan River, and WAY past TYRE in the north
ARE NOT being FORCED on your current day borders.
And all we really want is a PERMANENT and VIABLE peace. Not the "cold" peace we have had with Egypt for 26 years (since 1980)... But a REAL peace, where we can have OUR passport stamp in YOUR Passport without YOU having problems when YOU go home!
IE. Let's give it all up, and start trading together. I'm sure we can provide LOTS of creature comforts (and Electronic comforts) that you (as a pan-arabic people) may not easily have.
ALL we are REALLY asking is that you GIVE up the F#$#-ed up dream of another PAN-ARAB state encompassing the ENTIRE Mid-East. That will NEVER happen again. EVEN if there is another SALADIN.
The results of that would be a nuclear winter over the entire mid-east.
Even if Iran (or even Pakistan) has THE bomb and targets Israel, you don't think Israel would be able to retaliate, even after they were destroyed?
See THIS lovely piece from earlier in my blog, for a VERY (I think) CHILLING view of Armageddon (or GOG vs. MaGog)
Essentially, if you're too lazy to read....
- A submarine Fleet with STRATEGIC implications.
- (we presume...) nuclear weapons...
SO... Let's presume IRAN gets the bomb and uses it.
(BY the way, even if you're Arab, and especially if you're reading this in say...SYRIA)
YOU OWE ISRAEL BIG time for destroying Saadam's nuclear REACTOR in 1981!!!
OK. Iran gets the bomb, and sacks ALL of Israel,
From the golan heights (oops, that was Syria), all the way down to Gaza *(oops that wasn't Israel.. Was it... and all points in between)
SO you think that's it???
Get reasonable. See Number one above? Strategic IMPLICATIONS?
Get Reasonable See Number two above? A N-Bomb?
2 plus 2 equals 4.
Bomb plus Strategic implications equals a Glowing FLATTENED RADIOACTIVE MID-East.
We may be dead, but You'll be dead too, and your oil will be dead and radioactive too.
- Israel doesn't want IRAN to have the bomb.
- Israel Wants TRADE, NOT bombs.
- Israel wants a WARM peace, NOT an ICE COLD peace like we have with Egypt.
- Israel wants its NEIGHBORS (and brothers) to accept the 1948 UN two state SOLUTION, and FINALLY accept ISRAEL's RIGHT to exist.
- Israelis STILL vist Sharm-el-Shek, in the Sinai, despite the fact it's now in EGYPT, AND despite the fact that we've occupied Sharm-el-Shek twice, during the 1956 war, and 1967-1981.
- Israel tried to give Egypt the Gaza Strip back in 1980 (did you Know Egypt REFUSED to take it back? harumph!